In just a matter of weeks, Dai Flanagan will be working directly with the likes of Maro Itoje and Owen Farrell when he joins up with Saracens.
But as he sits in the historic and rugby-mad Old Arcade pub in the heart of Cardiff on Wednesday morning, he is no professional coach. Instead, like everyone else around him – including those already on the lager at 11am – he's a British & Irish Lions fan.
'I met up with Owen a week or so ago, before he went to Australia,' Flanagan tells Mail Sport, as we settle down to watch the Lions take on the Brumbies in Canberra.
Around us, there are rugby fanatics everywhere. The game in Wales might be struggling badly right now, but the passion still exists.
There are Lions shirts everywhere and the booze is flowing well before midday. One woman teams her morning fried breakfast with a pint.
On the walls are framed Western Mail front pages, mementos of past Welsh rugby glories – the 2008 Grand Slam and the infamous 30-3 hammering of England in 2013.
New Saracens coach Dai Flanagan (left) sat down with Mail Sport to watch the Lions in action
Flanagan gave his professional opinion as the Lions took on the Brumbies in their latest match
Flanagan is joining English giants Saracens for next season after leaving Welsh region Dragons
'We've got coffee, but it's only instant,' the landlord tells us. 'We don't do those fancy lattes, but it is free!'
Sitting down for kick-off, Flanagan continues: 'I spent two hours in a coffee shop in Harpenden with Owen. He's a great guy. We didn't chat too much about rugby.
'What surprised me was he went unnoticed. He was happy to meet in public. Can you imagine that in Wales? If Alun Wyn Jones was in here now, he'd be mobbed!
'For me, it's important to understand why players play and what makes them tick.'
Watching the Lions' latest warm-up match of their tour of Australia alongside Flanagan provided a fascinating insight into how a professional coach sees the game.
'It's hard for me to watch matches just for fun, especially when you're going to be working with the players involved,' he says. 'I always tend to watch analytically.'
Around us, there are cries of exasperation as Bundee Aki passes straight into touch and the Brumbies open the scoring. The bar becomes busier and busier. Flanagan lives and breathes rugby. As a player, he represented Cardiff, Ospreys and Pontypridd before moving into coaching.
In November last year, he departed his role as the man in charge of the struggling Welsh region Dragons. But his status as a young coach of real promise has been noted by Saracens, where he will work under experienced director of rugby Mark McCall. 'Ideally, I would have liked longer with the Dragons,' Flanagan says.
Flanagan has experienced Welsh rugby's difficulties first hand in his role with the Dragons
Flanagan was an interested Lions observer given he will soon work with tour captain Maro Itoje
'But the next step after that would have been to experience a new environment outside Wales, so this has just come sooner than I thought. Everything happens for a reason. When you're a head coach, it's a 24/7 job. You're not sleeping. We all know what's happening in Welsh rugby off the field.
'It's tough. Look at this pub. It's full. You can tell there are lots of people in Wales who care about rugby. We've got to keep giving the Welsh rugby public something to cheer about.
'I'm a passionate Welshman and it does pain me to see what's going on. I've been at the centre of it with the Dragons. They're my home region. I grew up in Penallta and we trained just down the road. I still speak to people at the Dragons.
'My wife can't understand it. I should have enjoyed it more. I cared so much. I just wanted it to succeed.'
Flanagan in Cardiff's historic Old Arcade pub
Flanagan, understandably, keeps an eagle eye on Lions captain Itoje in the Brumbies match. But as an attack coach, the backs are his main focus.
'Finn Russell finds space so well,' Flanagan says, as the No 10 sets-up Ollie Chessum.
'He's got a reputation, but I was in camp with Scotland in 2022 and what struck me about him is he's just so smart rugby wise.' Minutes later, Ellis Genge is penalised.
'I don't think you mind that as a coach,' Flanagan adds. 'He just wanted to hit someone and the Brumbies player pulled away. The Brumbies are kicking everything to compete. They're trying to give the Lions nothing.
'The Lions haven't reinvented the wheel on attack or kick strategy. Their game plan has been very Irish, unsurprisingly. But I also think they don't want to show too much, too early. I think they'll have improvement and something extra up their sleeves for the Tests.
'What is noticeable to me is how the players move into space. When you watch poor teams play, the pods of carriers are very static. In good teams like the Lions, the players are always running on to the ball. Look, there's another example with that Marcus Smith try.'
Midway through the first 40, Flanagan is recognised by one fan who congratulates him on his Saracens move. 'That was a lovely score,' says Flanagan, when Sky Sports' half-time coverage replays a Brumbies effort from Corey Toole.
'Look at it. They play off nine, then straight to the centre and the long pass to the wing. Everyone is expecting the No 10 to take possession.
'It's great deception which fixes the Lions defence. They'll be pleased with that.'
Flanagan talked Saracens tactics with Owen Farrell prior to his Lions call-up for Australia
Flanagan noted Henry Pollock's Lions impact off the bench against the Brumbies in Canberra
As they have done in all their warm-ups to date, the Lions manage to pull clear against the Brumbies. Flanagan notes the performances of Chessum and Irish centre Garry Ringrose. He points out the bench impact from Henry Pollock, adding the only Welshman in the squad in Jac Morgan has a real fight on his hands for a Test spot in the back-row.
'I think the attacking breakdown will be a big area of focus for Andy Farrell moving forward,' he says. 'I wouldn't be happy with it. It's an area where Australia will look to target the Lions.' Flanagan's Saracens move was officially confirmed this week.
But it has been in the pipeline for months and he will soon begin his new life in the Gallagher Premiership. It is a fine move for him. Flanagan's young family will stay in Wales initially while his two children complete junior school.
They will eventually join him in Harpenden full time. 'Harpenden was voted one of the best places to live in the UK – just like Penallta,' Flanagan says with a smile.
'I love the Saracens training base at Old Albanian Rugby Club. 'Half the battle as a coach is getting a connection between the players. When you train at a rugby club like Saracens do, half of that is done for you. You spend all day together there.
'I love the old-school atmosphere it provides, a bit like the pub here. Saracens is a club full of good people. That's my first reaction from being in the building.
'Mark and all the back-room team have helped me settle in and we haven't even reported for pre-season yet. Danny Barker, who supports the players, helped me find a place to live and showed me and my family around the area and the local schools.
'Things like that go a long way. When you're out of work in rugby, your phone is a lot quieter and you work out who your friends are. My phone has been a lot busier since the Saracens move was announced! The potential at Saracens is excellent.
'Everyone knows the quality of player there – guys like Maro and Owen. It's my job to try and make them even better. I'm excited to work with Fergus Burke. To have two quality 10's in him and Owen is just fantastic.
'Fergus is one of the best running fly-halves I've seen. 'But I'm also excited by the young talent, guys like Olly Hartley and Tobias Elliott. I'm thrilled about my next coaching chapter. Saracens have won the lot.
'But what I noticed in my interview process was the people there wanted to listen to what I had to say, not put their views on me. I think that open-minded nature is why they keep evolving and getting better as an organisation. I can't wait to be a part of it.'